Posts by defender of truth

152

HOW TO AVOID THE A-HOLE SPIRIT OF SOME HERE...

by DATA-DOG in

1) take meds for your megalomania and delusions of grandeur.. .

suggestions welcome.. .

dd.

defender of truth

As Viviane said, I too would like to see a specific example from FlyingHighNow.
I have never pressured anyone to be atheistic.

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

[this is the last off-topic post from me]

Sunny said:"Kassad, I'm sorry but that is such a narrow minded and selfish view. There are 6 people on this page 114 alone who are telling you they feel joy and great meaning in their existence without an afterlife."
Sunny, don't be too judgemental. I think I know where he is coming from. It is likely a view born of a depressed mentality, one that takes little or no joy in life because you think 'what is the point?'.
You can't get past it at times.
Then you go out, as others have said, have a nice meal, spend time away from this sometimes depressing or intense forum, play a favourite game or walk the dog and enjoy the scenery..
And whilst you are enjoying that moment, you couldn't care less about heaven, God or anything else. But the cloud of depression is still there when you stop 'living', or slow down and overthink.

Kassad.. Believe whatever helps you to enjoy this life, according to the evidence attainable from science it is all you have and, regardless of whether there is an afterlife, THIS is the only time you will experience life on earth.
Just do your best to make it as happy a stay as possible for other people. Whilst you are doing that, religious beliefs or concerns are irrelevant.
This quote speaks of the futility of waiting for an afterlife in order to live a good life:

(the quote is unaltered, except for replacing 'excusitive' with excusive, it clearly has the intended meaning and the word originally used is not a word, so it may be a typo)

“There is something profoundly cynical, my friends, in the notion of paradise after death.
The lure is evasion. The promise is excusive.
One need not accept responsibility for the world as it is, and by extension, one need do nothing about it. To strive for change, for true goodness in this mortal world,
one must acknowledge and accept within one’s own soul, that this mortal reality has purpose in itself, that its greatest value is not for us, but for our children and their children.

To view life as but a quick passage along a foul, tortured path – made foul and tortured by our own indifference – is to excuse all manner of misery and depravity, and to exact cruel punishment upon the innocent lives to come.
I defy this notion of paradise beyond the gates of bone. If the soul truly survives the passage, then it behooves us – each of us, my friends – to nurture a faith in similitude: what awaits us is a reflection of what we leave behind, and in the squandering of our mortal existence, we surrender the opportunity to learn the ways of goodness, the practice of sympathy, empathy, compassion and healing – all passed by in our rush to arrive at a place of glory and beauty..”
- from a book by Steven Erikson

152

HOW TO AVOID THE A-HOLE SPIRIT OF SOME HERE...

by DATA-DOG in

1) take meds for your megalomania and delusions of grandeur.. .

suggestions welcome.. .

dd.

defender of truth

Pressuring someone to become atheistic really would be a foolish waste of time.
It'd be like telling someone they should believe in something just because you said so.
Questioning and challenging a belief does not equate to pressuring someone to stop believing in something, in the same way that saying things like 'you atheists are ignorant of the evidence of Gods design, how can you not see it?' is not pressuring someone to believe in a God.
'Believe in a God or be destroyed/burn in hell, or never speak to your family again', on the other hand, is pressure. Those religions know it.

Atheists don't get brownie points or rewards for making people think about their beliefs. It is mostly done in self-defence, to protect others from controlling religious groups, or to stimulate thinking so that people can see through flimsy excuses or superstitions.
Why would an atheist pressure anyone to not believe in a God?

77

Give me a reason not to go back

by chukky 594 in

jw
friends

been out now for 10 yrs but life is a mess.

starting to think its because i have no spiritual compass.

why shouldn't i consider going back?.

defender of truth

If you wanted to share what country you live in perhaps a meetup could be arranged. But if you need a religious group, it may be that you don't quite know yourself and your own moral standards, or you may be unsure.
That being said, even atheists are supposedly welcome in the UU, so if you feel that you need social structure and a group with a moral code...
Let us know what you decide. As an active JW, I know that I'd rather throw myself under the nearest car than see anyone unwillingly trapped in this endless cycle of meetings and service. I'll never convert or return to any interested person.

If you do not HAVE to return because of family issues, PLEASE don't throw your life away on a controlling, pathetic little cult.
This is some info on the UU movement, if you are that desperate for some structure/purpose..
"The movement proclaims the importance of individual freedom of belief, and it includes members from a wide spectrum of beliefs....The movement does not have an official definition of God, but allows members to "develop individual concepts of God that are meaningful to them." Members are entirely free to "reject the term and concept altogether...Services in the movement's churches do not make much (if any) mention of God. They emphasise human, ethical and social issues, and do not assume a belief in God."
...
"Unitarian Universalism is a liberal religion born of the Jewish and Christian traditions. We keep our minds open to the religious questions people have struggled with in all times and places.
We believe that personal experience, conscience, and reason should be the final authorities in religion. In the end religious authority lies not in a book, person, or institution, but in ourselves. We put religious insights to the test of our hearts and minds...We affirm the worth of all women and men. We believe people should be encouraged to think for themselves."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/atheism/types/unitarianuniversalism.shtml

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

defender of truth

"It is not that a person DESERVES to suffer, it is that no person is more than any other, so if one is not above suffering, then no one else [is] either."

For that argument to be logically valid, the one making it would then have to show that anyone deserves to suffer, including babies. (we'll leave the animals for now if you like..)
Otherwise they are just starting off from an unsupported assumption.

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

defender of truth

Psacramento said:
"It may seem to you to be morally repugnant to allow the death of 250K people and I agree 100%, even the death of ONE person is one too many if it can be avoided BUT that doesn't have any bearing on whether there IS a reason for it happening."
Yet, you cannot think of one and your God has not provided one, or perhaps does not exist?

...
Psacramento said:
"Seems like we can't have one ( This type of life) without the other...Unless of course it has been proven...I don't follow that debate so I honestly don't know if it has."

So, you have no idea whether the life on this planet could exist without natural evil. Let's say that it could do. Why does God let people be tortured, beaten, or mentally abused and emotionally scarred to the point that they feel nothing, let alone positive qualities such as empathy and compassion for others? Good qualities can be gained by tending to a wounded child or animal and feeling the joy that it brings to help others.
There are so many circumstances that are in no way beneficial to people, not making them kinder or more empathetic, instead turning them hard and depressed, that I could not possibly list them.
You claim that 'to say all suffering serves no purpose is wrong'.
Let's turn that on its head..
To say that all suffering has a purpose is wrong. In fact, it's repulsive.

Psacramento also said: "I don't know why He didn't take away suffering..."
"All I know is that God does allow suffering and I do NOT know why."
Once again, even highly educated theists can't offer a defense. Not even one that convinces them.

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

defender of truth

Psacramento said:
"As some hard-line fundamenatlist would say, 'No one is innocent, so no one is above suffering'.
We may not like the argument, but it is a valid one."

Babies are innocent. Animals are innocent. The argument is not valid from any logical standpoint.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/222352/23/Theists-why-does-God-allow-suffering#.U_-OhF2t-o8

77

Give me a reason not to go back

by chukky 594 in

jw
friends

been out now for 10 yrs but life is a mess.

starting to think its because i have no spiritual compass.

why shouldn't i consider going back?.

defender of truth

http://www.uua.org/directory/congregations/

77

Give me a reason not to go back

by chukky 594 in

jw
friends

been out now for 10 yrs but life is a mess.

starting to think its because i have no spiritual compass.

why shouldn't i consider going back?.